Episode 23: Coping with a Bad Body Image Day- Transcript

[00:00:00.430] - Alli Green

Hi, Liz. Thanks for coming on the show. Would you mind telling our audience who you are and what it is you do professionally?

 

[00:00:08.030] - Liz Brinkman

Hi. Thank you for having me. Well, I'm Liz Brinkman and I am a registered dietitian. I have been now for 24 years, and I identify as a dietitian who does not use a traditional diet or weight-centric approach to care for people. I am a certified Intuitive Eating Counselor and a Be Body Positive Licensed Facilitator. I have been working to help people in exploring their relationship with food and paths to making peace and befriending their body. That is my passion. My work is dedicated to exposing diet culture as a system of oppression. And I care a lot about helping to name and dismantle those systems so that everyone, regardless of size, shape, skin color, sexual orientation or other identity, can truly be free. And at the end of the day, I want everyone to have more options with food, not less. And I say it to my kids all the time. I want everyone to know that this is no place for perfection. This world that we're living in and that separateness is an illusion, that we belong together, and it's together that we can find true healing and wholeness.

 

[00:01:31.310] - Sabrina

What do you think about body image and how that relates to specifically the college student population? What would you say are some of the challenges or strengths that you hear or see?

 

[00:01:43.360] - Liz Brinkman

Body image is a topic that is trending, if you will. It's a hot topic, especially with the emergence of the body positivity movement, which I think is really wonderful. Body image - when I think about body image, on the surface, it sounds like how our body looks, but it's really about how we perceive our bodies in comparison to our younger self, in comparison to other bodies around us. It's not so much a physical thing as it is a relationship that we have with our bodies, from the inside out. And I think it's an important topic for college age students because we're in constant transition. And change is an inevitable part of our life, and it can be really uncomfortable. And it's really important to care for that, that transition and the ensuing discomfort, if you will. Teenage years, of course, puberty, it's this time of really rapid body changing. It's a time of kind of really determining our identity, whether it's gender identity, sexual identity, what are our values and we're growing up. And the thing about College age, so let's say late teens/early 20s, not that that's the only age group that can go to College, but that's what I think about when I think of College age, is that many women will find that their body matures into their adult self, their adult body in their twenties, men, too.

 

[00:03:19.700] - Liz Brinkman

Regardless of your gender identity, "the human body", finishes maturing in your 20s. But on top of that, at this time of College, our lives are changing, and there's a lot of emotional stress of going from College, say, to the real world. And those stressors can trigger us to turn on our body as a way of focusing our attention. When we feel insecure or confused, we are conditioned in this culture to turn on ourselves. So I think it's a really important time to talk to people about how to care for their bodies, their ever changing bodies. And that it's an invitation to talk about casting a vision of what do you want your whole life to look like, and how can you bring your today's body into that without having to fit yourself into a beauty standard or a health standard or to an ability level in order to become a successful human being.

 

[00:04:25.280] - Alli Green

I love that Liz, that was really informative, and I think a really good take on just what happens in that traditional College time. Kind of a follow up to that, with social media, we're seeing images and messages about bodies all around. What would you say body image is, and how can you navigate having a good or healthy body image?

 

[00:04:52.030] - Liz Brinkman

The first thing I always like to talk to my clients about or my friends about is that we're not robots. We don't live in a test tube. We live in a world, and in that world there are constructs. And this always comes into the conversation I'm having with people, that we don't just wake up with a way to view our body or a way to relate to food. That all gets conditioned into us. And I think it's really important to name that, to recognize it, just to call it into our consciousness - that there are rules out there that we are being asked to follow, and we don't always have a say of what those rules are. That there is usually a system that's profiting off of our own insecurities, and wants to have us bite into this false truth that there is one way to have a body. That it's not benefiting our self growth in a sense. So just naming that and really allowing ourselves to see the harm in that and to be angry about that, whether it's something that happened in your past or that's currently happening in the present because of these systems that are coming up with this ideal beauty standard or a standard for what health looks like or what a body should look like. Just allowing ourself to acknowledge that and have emotions over that, that's not a bad place to be, but it's a terrible place to stay, and it can be a step towards healing, to be angry, to recognize all that.

 

[00:06:36.640] - Liz Brinkman

In fact, I think it's a necessary part, but it can't be our destination. So what do we do with that? Once we've acknowledged it and talked about it and come together around that truth, that there are beauty standards, that there are body standards. And what I always love to say too, is just because you might decide not to go after a beauty standard, doesn't mean you have to do away with beauty. That's why I like the Body Positive program a lot, because there's a whole section of that curriculum that talks about what is your beauty, and there's different prompts that lead you to discover who your whole self is and how that can be considered your beauty. Whether the outside world would call that a flaw or a problem, this Body Positive curriculum helps you to translate into being whole and having your own type of beauty.

 

[00:07:34.610] - Sabrina

So going along with that concept of healing, what would you say are some practices that you would recommend for helping us not only accept but also love our body image?

 

[00:07:46.050] - Liz Brinkman

Yeah, that's such a good question.

 

[00:07:47.900] - Ashley Munro

I love this idea that, this is a sidecar, it's good to acknowledge, but you can't stay in that place of anger and we have to move past it. And I think that's what  Sabrina's question, too, speaks to, like, how do we move forward? What are some tangible, practical things we can do? And I love that because I think we do get stuck in this area of frustration. And I think a lot of activism gets stuck in areas of frustration, and just like, sitting in that.

 

[00:08:19.170] - Ashley Munro

And I've had students say things, especially if it's a student that lives in a larger body, it's like, this is my reality. So just understanding that it's a systemic issue, doesn't make me feel very good. It reinforces the injustice, and it reinforces how I will then hold myself back, instead of like, okay, now the world is not holding you back because we've exposed this systemic issue around oppression, but because I can see that and it's my reality, and I embody that, now I'm holding myself back because I don't want to be subject to that. And someone recently told me that, and I just felt like that was such a powerful and true thing and it's their true lived experience.

 

[00:09:09.020] - Ashley Munro

So it was a very helpful thing for me to hear someone say and then just reminds me that it's so important for us to give these tangible ways to move forward. Especially for someone like that who just feels like they maybe can't.

 

[00:09:21.740] - Liz Brinkman

Yes.

 

[00:09:22.440] - Ashley Munro

They can't safely move forward. Do you know what I mean?

 

[00:09:25.540] - Liz Brinkman

Absolutely. And what I would say if you identify as a person who cannot safely move forward because of your identities, whether it is because of your body size or a marginalized identity that doesn't have as much power, then I would say to move forward in finding groups of people that you can find solidarity with and together have a level of power and authority, but we cannot do this alone. I think that's why one of my mottos is "separateness is an illusion," and even myself, I identify with a lot of privileges: body privileges, race privileges, gender privileges. And to notice that just because I have those privileges and that power, I could sit there and feel bad and feel frozen, like, oh, I don't want to say the wrong thing, but how can I share my power? How can I use that to raise someone else up, to be a person who has someone's back, if you will? I wrote a letter to my daughter at the end of her school year and to all daughters. I care a lot about the girls and young women in my life. I have a lot of them. And I just want to say that I may be speaking to my daughter and to someone who identifies as female, but I do believe this message can be extended to all genders.

 

[00:10:54.870] - Liz Brinkman

So what do we do about body image? One step could be to cast a vision about recognizing where you're at now, whether it's in confusion, fear, hurt, anger, and think about on the other side - of whatever this work of body image healing that you are going to be stepping into, on the other side of doing that - who is the you that comes through on the other side, regardless of your shape? And this isn't about how do I lose weight and fit into the standard, but let's just imagine that you can get to a place of respecting your body and having curiosity and compassion to your body and still live a very good and fulfilling life. Part of what I do with people, like I said, is casting a vision. So if goals are a destination on a map, values are the compass that set us in a direction that help us to determine actions. And so this casting of a vision can help you to know, like, on the other side of this [what you want]. I want to feel safety. I want to feel belonging. I want to feel dignity. So just having those words in your head and also seeing if you can locate a feeling of that in your body.

 

[00:12:18.510] - Liz Brinkman

How does it feel to go into your body to see? Like, can I even recognize the feeling of love, safety and belonging? So we do a little bit of imagining and practice in that way. That's an embodiment practice. How do you come into your body and notice what's going on in there? Does that feel safe to do? Have you ever done it before? Because if you haven't, you can hear me saying these things on this podcast, but without a guide or a mentor or someone who's done the work, it can be really hard to do. So I just want to name that. Another idea would be turning towards grief. Like I said, recognizing that there is a world out there, there are systems of oppression that have developed a beauty ideal, so recognizing that and taking time to grieve that. There is a specific grief practice that I like to take people through. And it starts with acknowledging the emotion of sadness or anger, confusion, and describing it. Like I said, locating it. Where does that reside in your body? How much of your body does it take up? What's the color of it? What's the temperature of it? What's the texture? Does it move? So really getting to know and turning towards that emotion. Nobody ever really sits us down and tells us how to feel things.

 

[00:13:38.440] - Liz Brinkman

And so this is the very first part of body image healing is: can you even be in your body to notice what's going on in there? Because our body is a vessel that carries a lot of things, not just bones and muscles and blood and water, but it also carries emotions and feelings and sensations. So after you've acknowledged this sad emotion, this anger, the opportunity there is to pendulate - to move to another part of your body, to notice if there's any part of you that feels more neutral, that feels more hopeful, that feels more love, unconditional, positive regard. And I always say, like, check your fingertips, check your ear lobes, check your eyebrows. It may be in more neutral parts of your body, and go there and take some refuge. That within your body, you're not 100% sadness, fear, anger, using your body as a safe resource. So this is part of this embodied, guided practice that I like to do with people. And we go back and forth, we go back to that sadness and the fear and go back to the love or the hopefulness, that that's within you. Usually when we do that at least helps someone to feel seen and validated.

 

[00:14:58.490] - Liz Brinkman

And when we feel seen and validated, something really cool happens in our neurobiology. We leave that place of threat, and we move into a place of connection and safety. We move to a part of our brain that can think into the future, that has more optimism, that's more solution-oriented. So if you're sitting there being like, there is no way I could ever even think of doing something to be in better relationship with my body, what that just tells me is you need someone to help you sit with discomfort and confusion long enough and acknowledge it and validate it enough so that you can even have an opportunity to start thinking into the future. That's kind of my baseline. What I've learned from Bri Campos is more about how to access our core beliefs and how to decode. I learned this from Tracy Brown, how to decode the statement, "I feel fat." We say that all the time, and if we can just step back from that statement, "I feel fat." What could be behind that? I think there's an invitation right there. Fat is adipose tissue, right? It covers our body.

 

[00:16:10.880] - Liz Brinkman

It protects us. It stores energy. When we feel something, we can either physically put our hands on it and touch it, or we can have this sensation or an emotion. And so to decode the statement, "I feel fat," is a real invitation. Because on the surface, what we're conditioned and taught in our society is if you feel fat, you should go on a diet. What we know about diets is they are not sustainable. That it really sets us up for a lifelong of not trusting our hunger, of feeling like we are doing something right and then suddenly feeling like we can't sustain it. So if I'm describing you, you're not alone. You are not the exception. This is a common feeling about dieting and a common experience. So going back to this decoding, "I feel fat." What is behind that? Is it I feel uncomfortable? Is it I feel lonely? I feel excluded? I feel _? And just really try to get to the root of that because once we can name that, we can come up with solutions that really care for that part. So "I feel lonely" doesn't ask you to go on a diet.

 

[00:17:20.510] - Liz Brinkman

"I feel lonely" asks you, how do you build community? It just gives us more sustainable, creative solutions to the discomfort that you're feeling. Our culture tells us to label it fat and wrong, but I think there's just a bigger invitation there.

 

[00:17:40.410] - Alli Green

Earlier, Liz, you mentioned that you liked this idea of sharing power, and I really resonated with that. In that sense, how can we help other people have healthier body image?

 

[00:17:53.900] - Liz Brinkman

I'm going to speak just from my own personal experience of, I have four kids, one of which is a teenage daughter, and what I decided when I had her is no matter how uncomfortable I am, no matter how far this takes me from a beauty standard, I will not model body hatred in front of her. I just won't do it. That's my standard. I will embrace putting on a bathing suit and swimming. I will clothe myself in comfortable clothes that's also in alignment with my fashion desire. I will notice if I'm getting wrinkles and talk about that, like this is what a body looks like to age. So when I think about within my family context, how do I share power? How do I model that? Is to practice the thing I want most for her, which is as much freedom as possible in my body. And also exposing her to my friends who are of diverse skin color, body size, gender identity, so that she has exposure to diversity. Because diversity is in our world, it's biologically a thing. Just like trees are diverse sizes, animals are diverse sizes. Why wouldn't humans be diverse? So that's within my family context. I think when it comes to sharing power within a client, like between myself and a client, recognizing as the "expert in nutrition" when they come to see me, the way that I share power is to say, "tell me your story."

 

[00:19:42.370] - Liz Brinkman

Tell me your story, I don't know everything about you. I may be somewhat of an expert in nutrition, but I am no expert in you. And here is an opportunity for me to hear what was your relationship with food and your body like, so far? Because within that story is where we're going to find ways to care and heal, for that specific person. And if I don't know something, even as an example, yesterday, one of my clients told me that they were diagnosed with something that was an acronym. And at first I had this conditioned response of like, oh, I should know what that is. And I'm like, oh, I should Google it really quick. But then something took over where I was like, I don't want to have that, imperialistic way of thinking with my power of the knowledge I've gained so far. So I just shared the power and said, oh, before you go on, what is that? I don't recognize what you said. Can you tell me about it? What do you know about it? Do we need to work together to figure out what that is? And it meant something, I think, for her to be able to explain something to me that I didn't know.

 

[00:20:44.730] - Sabrina

And I know that you mentioned a few other dietitians that you said have taught you some things. So I was just wondering, what are some additional resources that students can access if they're looking to have a better understanding of this topic? And again, if you would name some of the dietitians that you've gotten lessons from?

 

[00:21:03.060] - Liz Brinkman

Absolutely. Thank you. I have done training with Tracy Brown. She's located in Florida, but she's a virtual practice and she helps dietitians learn a non-diet approach, as well as trauma informed care. I've not done formal training with Bri Campos, but she has the Instagram page, "BodyImagewithBri", and she has a lot of Instagram lives where she is so generous with her teaching. And she also offers classes as well. She has a podcast.

 

[00:21:37.380] - Liz Brinkman

I love to read. I've read a lot of the books by, I think she's a psychologist, I like to read books by a woman named Hillary McBride. She has a wonderful book called "Mothers, Daughters, and Body Image" that has become such a great resource for me with my own daughter, and with the teenagers and 20 year old age clients that I work with and their parents. So it's just a good resource all around. The Body Positive - I've done lots of training with them. I use their curriculum when I run groups. And also I would just say there's other books out there. And I'm happy to send you a resource list that I have pulled together. I love the author, Emily Nagoski.

 

[00:22:26.640] - Liz Brinkman

She wrote the book "Come As You Are," and also "Burnout." And she has this health at every size approach and a view that is from a more feminist perspective about bodies, and how to be a person in this world that wants to step away from diet culture and the patriarchy.

 

[00:22:46.320] - Ashley Munro

I love that.

 

[00:22:47.280] - Ashley Munro

If you send a reference list, we'll be sure to link to all of that in the show notes so students can kind of look at a resource menu and kind of ask themselves what they need and kind of explore that themselves to get additional information.

 

[00:23:00.740] - Liz Brinkman

Yeah, that'd be awesome.

 

[00:23:02.590] - Alli Green

Thank you, Liz, for just sharing all of that. It was a really great resource of information. At the end of each show, we just do some quick questions. So think on your feet, but if you could only eat three foods ever again, what would they be?

 

[00:23:20.590] - Liz Brinkman

Wow. I have a very diverse palate, so I never eat the same thing twice in a week if I can manage that. But I love a meal of, like, a really hearty salsa and a really good tortilla chip. I think I'd be happy with that. Does that count as two?

 

[00:23:37.560] - Alli Green

I think so.

 

[00:23:38.470] - Liz Brinkman

Okay, so my last one would be short ribs, just the slow cooked ribs. It is the most sensual cut of meat, and it's so delicious. I'd have it every day if I could afford to.

 

[00:23:55.490] - Ashley Munro

You know, it's something my husband and my dad ask a lot for me to make, and when it's like "choose what you want to eat for your birthday or for Father's Day," that is a very popular choice.

 

[00:24:06.070] - Liz Brinkman

Yes.

 

[00:24:07.910] - Ashley Munro

Now I know what to make you, though.

 

[00:24:09.600] - Liz Brinkman

Yes. Those are my three.

 

[00:24:13.160] - Alli Green

Awesome, breakfast or dinner?

 

[00:24:16.220] - Liz Brinkman

Dinner.

 

[00:24:17.150] - Alli Green

And then, if you could have three people at dinner, death or alive, who would they be?

 

[00:24:24.210] - Liz Brinkman

This is the hardest question for me. I just need you to know that because there are so many people I would love- I love eating with people. I love gathering around a table. So if I had to answer that question, the first one I would say is my mother-in-law, and she passed away when my second child turned one, on his first birthday. And I think of her often because she had six sons, and I have three sons. But I just am always looking for other women who have gone before me in something. And I want to just ask her all kinds of questions, like, how did you make it through this with these boys that were so physically active? So she'd be one person. Her name is Sylvia. Another person...

 

[00:25:13.080] - Ashley Munro

I feel like this is a maybe mean question for someone who also has a big family.

 

[00:25:19.130] - Liz Brinkman

Exactly, no more family members.

 

[00:25:20.340] - Ashley Munro

No more family members.

 

[00:25:22.490] - Liz Brinkman

Well, my second person today, since I'm answering this question today is I would love to sit and have a meal and a conversation with the author named Valarie Kaur. She wrote a book called "See No Stranger: A Memoir and Manifesto of Revolutionary Love," and she just talks a lot about really relevant issues of our country is so divided, what are the stories of what created that division, and what are some practices to meet someone in a way that you can be curious and open enough that might lead to resolutions, might lead to understanding, might lead to reconciliation. I found her story so powerful. And the third person, I think it would have to be my spiritual director. Her name is Sandy and she recently passed away too, actually, unexpectedly. And she just was the icing on my cake for all the learning and education that I have done since doing this profession and she just added this wonderful lens of spirituality onto it, which I think is really vital, especially in the healing of eating disorders. I'm not talking about religion. I'm just talking about this interconnectedness that we have with each other. So that would be my third person.

 

[00:26:58.140] - Ashley Munro

Thank you so much, Liz. This was, I think, all of your advice and all of your intention around how you want to reach people and really sit with people and hold space for them in all of these different ways and empower people and share power, that is so beautiful. And I think that students are really going to feel like this gives them a place they can tangibly hold onto, to think about how they show up in this world, in our bodies, and how they look at other bodies. So we just so appreciate you sharing all of that with our audience and being a resource for students and, yeah, just being in this profession. You're what we need more of.

 

[00:27:46.260] - Liz Brinkman

Thank you, I'm so honored to be here. Thank you for having me.

 

[00:27:50.100] - Ashley Munro

All right, thanks again. Bye.