Episode 12: Intuitive Eating Transcript
[00:00] - Ashley
Welcome to Nutrition Navigators Podcast- Bringing Nutrition & Wellness To You
Together we learn from a variety of health professionals, about their stories and how they contribute to the world that is wellness.
My name Ashley Munro and I am one of the nutrition counselors at Campus Health and the advisor for Nutrition Navigators.
My co-host today is Olivia Cain
[00:00:01.320] - Olivia
Hi Ashley, my name is a Olivia, I am a senior majoring in nutrition with an emphasis in dietetics.
[00:00:02.320] - Olivia
On today’s episode we have Megan from NAU on our show!
Megan Meyer is a registered dietitian and health educator for NAU Campus Health Services, where she spends her time working with students to inspire a healthy relationship with their bodies and their meals. She is passionate about combining her love of food and nutrition with health policy to help improve the health of the NAU community.
**And just a note that all the content on the podcast is for a general audience is intended to be for informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.
Now, let’s welcome Megan to the show!!
[00:00:04.320] - Olivia
Hi there. Megan, can you tell our listeners who you are and what you do?
[00:00:08.850] - Megan
Yeah, hi, Olivia. Hi, Ashley. My name is Megan Meyer. I'm a registered dietitian for Northern Arizona University. I do a lot of things on campus. I see students, staff, faculty in a more patient related setting doing nutrition counseling. And then I also do outreach and education on nutrition and general wellness. And right now, the covid vaccine for the rest of our university campus.
[00:00:32.060] - Ashley
Very cool. Thank you so much for being with us. So today we're talking about intuitive eating. But before we talk about what intuitive eating is, can I ask, how did you find intuitive eating or get started with it?
[00:00:56.440] - Megan
That's a really great question, and I don't know if I actually know. I want to say it was from a conference. I think the first thing that I really remember was that an American College Health Association conference and I went to a topic on weight stigma and weight bias. And the speaker, I think, just happened to mention intuitive eating as well as some other resources, like The Body is Not an Apology by Sonya Renee Taylor and I think that was what really piqued my interest.
[00:01:27.730] - Megan
But I literally cannot remember, what happened between then and a year later when I was really like, yes, this is how I want to work with all my clients.
[00:01:35.870] - Ashley
Yeah, that's awesome. And I think and you mentioned the conference talked about weight, stigma. I think sometimes intuitive eating is a very it's a gentle but it's a doorway, I think, into understanding weight, stigma and weight bias. Like, I think folks find intuitive eating first before they find health at every size a lot of times, or they understand intuitive eating first, and then they move in to kind of understanding the social justice aspects of it, which I think is why I think intuitive eating for fun doorway.
[00:02:05.170] - Ashley
OK, I just was curious. So that phrase itself is intuitive eating, which is very familiar to to us who practice as intuitive eating counselors. I think it gets thrown around a lot though on social media and just, you know, kind of everywhere these days. How would you explain it to someone who just saw it kind of in writing? Yeah, and so so yeah, I agree. I think it's thrown around a lot and it created a lot of confusion over intuitive eating.
[00:02:38.710] - Megan
So my favorite way to describe it is it's really just the self care framework for eating. It's a way to eat that is really self compassionate, it's weight neutral, it really focuses on how food makes us feel when we are nourished and we get enough to eat, but also when we enjoy eating. That's usually how I like to explain it to people. And then my my longer answer when they're like, oh, tell me more.
[00:03:02.680] - Megan
I do talk a little bit more about how I love it because it does incorporate nutrition and it incorporates movement, but it really goes into that that mindful eating component too and really understanding our relationship with food and making it OK to enjoy all foods, foods from your culture, foods from your background, you know, Girl Scout cookies, whatever falls into that list, they're all valid food choices. And I love that about intuitive eating.
[00:03:28.330] - Ashley
And it sounds like you don't necessarily even mention like that. It's a book or it has 10 principles when you're first introducing it to someone. For students too, I guess. Do you recommend they read it or do you recommend they look up the principles for intuitive eating?
[00:03:43.780] - Megan
Yeah. I think that's a great point. Once they start to ask more, I will direct them towards the book. And then a couple of other books that are intuitive eating focused as well. Just that sometimes resonate a little bit more with the college student population.
[00:03:57.770] - Ashley
I think when I when we talk about it and you start to mention the principles, I think folxs have just this broader understanding of, oh, it's not just eat when you're hungry, stop when you're full. There's these principles like body respect and coping and coping with emotions with kindness and satisfaction. I think folxs are surprised that it's not just because it sounds like intuitive eating right. The word the word is. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.
[00:04:23.500] - Megan
And that other misperception. Right. Of like just eat anything all the time. There's that big fear that when you eat intuitively you're going to just like binge and eat all "unhealthy" things and you're never going to eat a salad again. And really that's so far from the reality of intuitive eating. So yeah, definitely those ten principles can be super helpful.
[00:04:42.580] - Ashley
There's so much nuance in it. People tell me all the time, "if I'm allowed to eat what I want, I'm just going to eat like goldfish crackers all day", we go to that extreme. And I think it speaks to this lack of trust in our bodies. Right. And that we've been that we've been taught not that we were born with, but that we've been taught.
[00:05:00.250] - Olivia
Yeah. So would you recommend that as the first step for someone who might be new to intuitive eating is to read those principles, or do you have another roadmap for them?
[00:05:13.120] - Megan
A lot of times I will say, OK, intuitiveeating.org has the ten principles listed, just run through those and see what resonates with you the most. Because again, I think it can also be really overwhelming because it's so nuanced and complex. And so maybe ditching diet, culture is really, really scary for somebody, but maybe it's easier to say, OK, I'm going to start with dealing with my emotions in a kinder way.
[00:05:37.210] - Megan
And so it could be a really nice framework to see where can we get started. And then from there, I usually will share, I'll say, like go to one of the trusted intuitive eating resources, because there's so much it's just gotten so like co-opted by diet culture, like Noom uses intuitive eating or like Gwyneth Paltrow last week. I don't know if either of you saw it, but did this like "intuitive fasting thing", which is literally like the opposite of everything intuitive eating is.
[00:06:08.740] - Megan
So, I usually will say, like, let's go over some of those trusted resources, people who really understand intuitive eating and can help walk you through it.
[00:06:17.830] - Olivia
I think that's really important, too, especially when you mention the kind of fad diets sneaking in there. That's important so that people are not just following whatever they see online or something about it, too, that they're getting from a reliable source. I'm kind of wondering as a college student, too, if that's a good thing for college students to practice intuitive eating, especially because a lot of college students don't have access to like a ton of different foods for a multitude of different reasons and how to not overthink it too much.
[00:06:57.340] - Megan
Yeah, absolutely. And I do think college students can totally practice intuitive eating. And maybe it's not the whole framework at first. Right. Because definitely I really understand that more and more students are dealing with food insecurity. It's not just like a college student ramen budget. It's really like not having food at all. And so really, I think it's it's certain principles can really help us. Even in those like food insecure times are times of not having enough. And that's what I really like, is it really helps us understand that, why behind why we eat. And so maybe for a student who's really busy and missing meals all the time, they're hungry all the time. Maybe they can start with honoring their hunger and doing check ins throughout the day just to say, OK, maybe I need to pack a snack. And so really, really that gentle approach and thinking where they can add food and eating into their life.
[00:07:44.830] - Megan
I think, again, that's the nice part, there ten principles, but you don't have to follow them in order. You can really move through them any direction you want. For students, a lot of times we start with honoring your hunger, respecting your fullness just because it's a little bit easier to grasp, but it can also give students just started with eating consistently. The coping with emotions, with kindness is another one that I really love to start with, because I think students just have a lot of stress and a lot of other mental health concerns that are really worse because of covid, especially right now.
[00:08:17.830] - Megan
So how can we say, OK, let's look at how you're coping and can we expand that toolbox to be reaching out to a friend, going on a walk, you know, having it and just not always fall into food. And so I really, really think it's because it's so flexible. It's perfect for students who have a lot on their plates.
[00:08:35.320] - Ashley
Absolutely, and I think that flexibility mindset helps us be more compassionate because we're not boxed into these rules around food or around anything in particular, and we don't have to feel bad for all that was accessible to me today was X and Y.
[00:08:52.810] - Ashley
If I can be gentle with myself and be gentle with my situation, I can maybe find more satisfaction in what I'm eating and eat more regularly because I'm not boxed in to these rules. I think the rules make it a barrier, right, to like just getting ourselves fed throughout the day.
[00:09:10.120] - Megan
Yeah. So, one of the principles is making peace with food. Right. And acknowledging like all foods can fit into our diet and it doesn't have to be this big war of like "bad" "should" all those labels be put. And I think one of the best skills that relates to that is being able to zoom out and look at the big picture. And that's what gives us that flexibility so we can zoom out and say, you know, yeah, I struggled with vegetables this week and I didn't get as many as I would have liked.
[00:09:35.920] - Megan
But I also got a good workout in and I felt really great from this yoga session, or I was really able to connect with friends, all those other aspects of our health that are just as important as the food we eat, but we forget about because we get so hyper focused on like this perfect quote unquote diet.
[00:09:56.920] - Olivia
I love that mental health is kind of taken into account, too, just because, you know, eating and food and emotions and mental health are so synonymous.
[00:10:06.700] - Ashley
Yeah, we do forget about it a lot because it's easier maybe to have a black and white role or it's easier to kind of feel that false sense of control when we're using food as a way to feel more structured. That it can make it hard for us to remember our mental health. And not that that rigidity might be making us more stressed in the end. And that's not good for our mental health either.
[00:10:35.590] - Megan
Yeah, and I think especially now with COVID more than ever, we all want some sort of normalcy and control. And so it's so much easier to dig our heels into this structure and really intense food, real world versus like giving ourselves some grace and some self compassion.
[00:10:55.960] - Ashley
It's like a framework for getting curious and to being kind to yourself. I feel like that's like intuitive eating.
[00:11:07.300] - Ashley
When you work with students on intuitive eating, do you have like very common questions that they ask you? Do you hear things a lot that are similar.
[00:11:17.830] - Megan
Yeah. A lot of them are. Sometimes it's like I just feel like I'm going to be out of control and I'm addicted to sugar, for example. So how can I move past that addiction? And for me to say you're allowed to have sugar, like actually let's go buy a box of Oreos or a pint of ice cream and see what it's like to eat that and know there's going to be more. I think that's a really common question that I get another one. I think kind of back to Olivia's question is this "I'm really struggling to just afford food", so how can I fit this into my lifestyle? And then the other one, because I do have a lot of students who are referred to me and faculty/ staff for things like high cholesterol or high blood pressure.
[00:12:04.600] - Megan
So this idea that, like, "I can't eat that way because I'm going to get sick" or "my health condition is going to get worse". "So how can I actually make this work for me?"
[00:12:15.160] - Ashley
Yeah, I think we get that a lot too. Is well intuitive eating is eat whatever you want, which I think is also a misconception. So "what about health?" question. Do you have like a short kind of way of explaining that to students?
[00:12:32.380] - Megan
Yeah, I think for that one specifically, a lot of times, as I will say, you know, like, yes, part of intuitive eating is eating what we want and enjoying our food. But also it just doesn't feel great to only eat cake all the time or potato chips. Part of intuitive eating is really understanding how food makes us feel physically, not just mentally and emotionally. Most recently, my example is for Valentine's Day, I had a friend who sent me like Milkbar cake for Galentine's Day, which I don't know about Milkbar cakes, but they're like super rich and I mean, they're just great.
[00:13:04.720] - Ashley
I've seen them on Instagram. I've never had it.
[00:13:07.840] - Megan
It was great. So they had these many red velvet cakes just for Valentine's Day. So we sent each other the same cake. And she also threw in some truffles. And it was great, like it was really tasty. And my husband and I shared it and we definitely ate a lot of cake that weekend, which was fine. But then Monday rolled around and I was like, wow, I just don't feel great. I'm a little bit tired.
[00:13:29.080] - Megan
My stomach hurts. I don't know if I ate a vegetable last few days. So naturally, my mind was like, OK, what sounds good and I was able to say, let's have a soba noodle salad with lots of veggies and peanut sauce and chicken and really like that trust. Right. And being able to say our bodies will tell us what we need and sometimes that's cake and sometimes that's vegetables. And we just need to learn to trust it and listen to it again.
[00:13:54.240] - Ashley
Yeah. I think it's made it so challenging for so many, over the years having been told the opposite, being told like, well, you have to follow this plan or you have to follow these set of external rules and you can't be trusted. Or very early on example of the parent saying, you know, finish your plate, even though your belly is saying I'm already full or you asking for a snack and the caregiver saying, well, but you just ate, you can't be hungry, just like those really early messages of, well, then my body must not be right and how that can stick with people for so long.
[00:14:34.770] - Megan
Yes. I mean, we really pathologize hunger and fullness. And it's really weird. Hunger is what helped us survive as a species. And we tell people they can't trust it anymore. And it's the same like we can trust our hunger, we can trust our fullness. We can trust our cravings. It doesn't mean we're missing something or something's wrong with us. And we've just really gotten these messages that that's all wrong. And it's sad because it makes me want me to be like let's go back to eating and having fun.
[00:15:10.060] - Olivia
Even like our kind of cultural times of eating like breakfast, whatever, eight a.m. and then lunch at noon and then dinner at six, like that's even really rigid. And like, what if you're not hungry at dinner time, what's called dinner time, then you're supposed to just eat anyways because you're not going to have food later.
[00:15:30.610] - Megan
Yeah. And especially for students. Right, Olivia, like students naturally sometimes are going to be up later because of classes or homework. And students don't just have school anymore. They have a lot of responsibilities. And sometimes dinner is going to be eight o'clock at night or nine o'clock at night. But we might have been told we're not allowed to eat past seven thirty. So it becomes it's like, do I eat or go to bed hungry too? Am I going to feel guilty for just having dinner and nourishing my body?
[00:15:55.540] - Megan
And so it's that same kind of concept, like we have to eat at least at times, and we have to eat these foods at least at times. It really just it gets in our head and it makes it so hard to just know how to eat.
[00:16:09.490] - Olivia
It makes me think of like intermittent fasting, because I know, like, a lot of people are doing that. And so it just makes me wonder, too, about that, if that's maybe not a completely I don't want to say "healthy", but like stuffing everything into that certain time period or maybe you're not feeling super hungry during the day or something.
[00:16:31.650] - Ashley
Well, what happens to us if we feel hungry outside of that?
[00:16:39.060] - Megan
Yeah, it's something that just overrides that internal cue, which is, you know, that's really what intuitive eating moves away from is, you know, whatever the external eating cue is, whether it was a clean plate club, like you mentioned earlier, Ashley, or intermittent fasting or maybe you did have food insecurity and you grew up with empty cupboards and so your eating was really based off of what was available in front of you.
[00:17:08.040] - Megan
But so all of those things are things that override that natural ability to trust when we're hungry and full. And so getting back to that, I think is really so key is just, again, that trust and that understanding of what our bodies are telling us.
[00:17:21.360] - Ashley
Yeah. And do you feel like students have a good like when you mention intuitive eating, you guys start working through it? Do you feel like students feel like it resonates with them?
[00:17:30.460] - Megan
I think most of the time, yes. I think that just depends on where someone is in a season of life and what's going on. And and of course, that's OK. And my job is to respect that. But I would say most of the time there's at least, you know, maybe they don't resonate with all 10 principles, but definitely even just starting that more self compassionate view with food, I think is always a big breath of fresh air for people.
[00:17:53.940] - Megan
Right. You don't have to take away food. There's no "should" in my office coming from my mouth. And so I think a lot of times intuitive eating can be like this big relief for people who have maybe historically been told they need to diet or they need to restrict foods or they need to lose weight. And so I think it really it's like just this calming conversation, which I love.
[00:18:21.780] - Ashley
And I feel like students, especially in large groups, feel very like, yes, tell me more like this makes sense. But then it's this application, I understand it, I can conceptualize it intuitively makes so much sense. But how do I actually start practicing it. I think there's a disconnect there.
[00:18:42.000] - Megan
Yeah. I think that's the trickiest part, especially with some of the principles that can feel a little more abstract. Right. Like making peace with your food or like respecting your body can sometimes feel really abstract. So a lot of times I will have just like a few set action items for each principal to get people started, because I think otherwise it is just really abstract. And it's kind of like, hmmm I don't really know what to do with this. Like I would love to like ditch the diet mentality, but what does that actually mean in practice?
[00:19:13.270] - Ashley
Yeah, do you have one example. Like if students are saying "I'm interested in intuitive eating, I want to today, practice recognizing diet culture", like how do they do that?
[00:19:24.820] - Megan
For recognizing diet culture. My favorite way is like, start with your social media and Marie Kondo it, right. So, if you're scrolling through and you're on ticktock or Instagram and something like doesn't bring you joy, it makes you feel guilty about your movement or really any health behavior. Right. Mental health, physical health. Like unfollow it, like get rid of it, toss it away. That's where you start to build that. Another favorite one of mine, of course, is like to throw out your scale, which really impacts like ditching diet mentality and respecting your body. It's like a two for one like kind of bonus thing they can do.
[00:20:02.230] - Ashley
I love that. That's so like tangible that students can apply today, which I just think is awesome. You mentioned earlier, Megan, that the book can sometimes be a great doorway, but there was some other resources that you thought were maybe more appropriate for this population. Could you share?
[00:20:25.870] - Megan
Yeah, absolutely. OK, so from a from a book standpoint, I would say if someone has the money and is able to afford it, Christy Harrison's Anti-diet book is a nice one. It's not really like doesn't have some tangible steps, but I think it helps add additional context to intuitive eating. And then Laura Thomas, who is a UK based dietitian, I don't know if you know about her, Ashley, but she she's great resources. So she got a book that came out last year that is available in the States.
[00:20:54.340] - Megan
Now, I did check this morning and it's called Just Eat It. Then if students are really struggling financially. I actually think Laura Thomas's podcast Don't Salt My Game is a really great starting point. She does swear. So if you're like someone who does not like swear words, like not a great one to start with, but she especially most recently because she's relaunching a workbook, she actually her most recent episodes are actually like how to do the different steps of intuitive eating.
[00:21:22.810] - Megan
And so she breaks it down principle by principle, which is really nice. Instagram, I think there are some really great sources on Instagram who really do talk about intuitive eating and really pulling that nuance. And so Laura Thomas, again, her Instagram handles, Laura Thomas, PhD, Cristy Harrison's. It's really great. And then from a mental health standpoint, I really like Hey Tiffany Roe her page.
[00:21:53.290] - Megan
And my favorite part is that her husband has gotten into the intuitive eating train, too. And so he has his own account and he has like the "Roe method" for figuring out what you want to eat. I use that all the time, like, do I want something hot? Do I want something Slurpee? Do I want something tangy? That's noodles. That's what I just described. I think that Instagram piece is really great because it does just give you those quick little nuggets throughout the day.
[00:22:20.230] - Megan
And those are some of my favorite ones. They just seem like easier to understand and really like they're clear, they're good graphics, but they're fun too and so I appreciate that.
[00:22:31.810] - Ashley
Hey tiffany roe, she's a therapist. I really love like she really advocates for, like, dance breaks throughout the day. And she has all these videos about like dancing for your mental health. And I think that is really fun.
[00:22:46.240] - Megan
And she's an incredible dancer. I just have to say, like her moves are so killer and I really like would love to go to one of her dance parties. I have a friend from high school who went to one of her dance parties pre covid, and it just looks so amazing. They had like a little intuitive eating snack bar. And Evelyn Tribole was there one of the co-authors of intuitive eating, like it just looks so fun. And I think that's what we're missing from life is sometimes is like joy, the joy, peace for sure.
[00:23:14.680] - Ashley
Those are great resources.
[00:23:15.850] - Ashley
And we'll be sure to link to all of those in the show notes. I have I used to listen quite more than I do now, but Laura promises don't stop my game because I just thought she's really funny. And yes, you do have to like cursing a little bit. But I thought she was a really good, approachable resource. I didn't know she was coming out with a workbook. It's not out yet, though, right?
[00:23:37.750] - Megan
I don't think so. But her work book I think will be good. And then actually, I don't know, but the Evelyn Tribole is also coming out with like a daily intuitive eating book. I think that's this month and it's being released. Right. And so I think that will be a great one because it feels like it will be more like action based, which is really nice.
[00:24:12.250] - Ashley
Yeah. I've heard it's got like daily affirmations and ways you can kind of put the principles into practice day to day, and I think that's helpful for people who are exploring it, but maybe not sure how to implement it. Maybe they're not able to work with an intuitive eating counselor.
[00:24:33.920] - Ashley
Yeah, cool. Well, did we did you want to share anything with us today that we haven't asked you about yet?
[00:24:45.470] - Megan
Yeah, I would just say my normal disclaimer, which is like intuitive eating, one can feel really overwhelming, but it can also challenge what we think about health and nutrition. So I always just say, think about it, approach it with an open mind and an open heart and and really just give it a good look, because it's really I've seen it do some incredible things in people's lives and really just bring back joy, but also help them feel healthy and whole again.
[00:25:15.150] - Ashley
And I love what you mentioned earlier, Megan, that is 10 principles, so there's lots of flexibility in what people can apply in different seasons of their life, and there's no one way to do it. And I think that in itself can feel scary because it's not like step by step. Or "just do it this way". I think there is beautiful flexibility in applying the principles that resonate the most with you. If you look at it in one principle doesn't resonate with you, maybe the other ones do.
[00:25:44.560] - Olivia
Right, there is something for everyone to relate to.
[00:25:47.760] - Megan
Yeah, and there's no rush to do it all either. So take your time and dive in and really just work on things at your own pace. There's no race. There's no trophy at the finish line. Just let yourself learn at your own pace and grow at your own pace.
[00:26:02.760] - Ashley
I love that there's no trophy at the finish line. Intuitive Eating has the book and we'll link to that in the show notes. It also has a workbook. So I know tons of people who have started the workbook and they come and go. They work on a section and then they come back. They let it kind of absorb for six months or so and then come back later. And so I think there's so much compassion and gentleness in the process and it's not going to be something where it's like, I'm going to do this in three months.
[00:26:28.880] - Ashley
Yep. Yep. For sure. Great. Well, thank you for that.
[00:26:34.080] - Olivia
We have some fun questions that we and each podcast with that are just kind of easy questions. The first one is, if you could eat only three foods ever again, what would they be?
[00:26:49.620] - Megan
OK, so I have to tell you, I thought about this for a really long time because I love food so much and I'm so indecisive. So this is my list. And my husband agreed with it too. Donuts I'm known on campus is like the donut loving dietitian, meatballs and smoothies.
[00:27:08.880] - Olivia
Yeah it's a good it's a good variety too.
[00:27:37.650] - Olivia
OK, so next we have crunchy tacos or soft tacos.
[00:27:41.910] - Megan
Soft tacos if they're from Del Taco or homemade and then crunchy tacos everywhere else.
[00:27:47.780] - Olivia
All right. So I got to say, I like a good crunchy taco, too. All right. So the next is breakfast or dinner?
[00:27:57.210] - Megan
Breakfast for sure.
[00:28:11.780] - Olivia
OK, and then the last question is, if you could have dinner with three people dead or alive, who would they be?
[00:28:18.200] - Megan
Yeah. So Roxane Gay, the author, I think she's also been learning how to cook lately, which I think is just like so fun and exciting. And I love following her cooking stories. Julia Child has been on my list for a long, long time. And then my third one that was added in the last year is Monica Lewinsky, which I don't know if, college students like your age, know who Monica Lewinsky is like from the Bill Clinton impeachment scandal.
[00:28:45.770] - Megan
But she is like she is the best Twitter follower, like, super positive, super kind. She does a lot of anti-bullying work and mental health advocacy. It's like so amazing. So, yeah, she's been on my list recently. I'm like, I want to be friends with you.
[00:29:16.650] - Ashley
That's awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here today. We appreciate your expertise and your time and just the perspective that you bring, because you do what we do to like you work with students day in and day out. So I think that they're really going to appreciate the application, just this relevance and the application of intuitive eating into the college experience. So, yeah, we appreciate you so much. Thank you for being here.
[00:29:43.940] - Megan
Yeah, thanks for having me. It was great.
[00:30:04.320] - Ashley
That’s our show, thank you so much for listening. Please share with your friends and connect with us on all our Campus Health Social Channels, and email us at CHS-nutritionnavigators@email.arizona.edu to submit your questions and comments about the show. We are so excited to be bringing you monthly content to spark curiosity and further empower you to feel your best!
We are sponsored by Campus Health and are a program in Health Promotion and Preventive Services. We want to thank Megan for coming on the show and introducing intuitive eating. Helping students explore and be open minded around food and body and for sharing all the amazing resources
Until next time, be well Wildcats!