Episode 4: Implicit Bias Transcript
[00:00:04.690] - Kayla
Hello everyone, welcome to nutrition navigator's podcast, Bringing Nutrition and Wellness to you. Together, we learn from a variety of health professionals about their stories and how they contribute to the world. That is wellness. This is an extension of our campus health program, Nutrition Navigator Spotlight Series Presentations. We are a monthly podcast were we interview health professionals in the field about health and wellness topics for college students. This is our opportunity to grow and build community with University of Arizona students.
[00:00:32.950] - Kayla
My name is Kayla. I'm the student coordinator for nutrition navigators. Ashley Munro is my co-host and one of the nutrition counselors at Campus Health and the advisor for Nutrition Navigators. And a third co-host will be joining us today. She's an excellent volunteer for nutrition navigators. Elizabeth, Elizabeth, would you like to introduce yourself?
[00:00:51.500] - Elizabeth
Yeah, hi, everybody. My name is Elizabeth Hill and I'm currently a sophomore majoring in pharmaceutical sciences and minoring in public health. I just joined Nutrition Navigators last semester to help educate not only myself, but other people on campus about nutrition as a college student, which is a big change from before. And these podcasts are just a benefit that I wasn't expecting, but I'm really glad to be a part of. So thank you for having me. Awesome.
[00:01:16.840] - Kayla
Thank you so much for sharing, Elizabeth.
[00:01:19.750] - Kayla
I'm happy you were able to join us today as well. So let's get started. On today's episode, we have Dr. Laura Hunter. She earned her in sociology at the University of Arizona and completed a postdoctoral fellowship at the University of Notre Dame. Her research has focused on unconscious bias, particularly against women in STEM fields, currently works in initiatives for organizational inclusion at the University of Arizona, where she leads efforts to create a more inclusive campus for students, staff and faculty.
[00:01:50.710] - Kayla
And in that role, she offers trainings on implicit bias, imposter syndrome, mentoring best practices, among other topics. Dr Hunter will also earn her master's degree in public health this December, with an emphasis on health promotion. She's currently completing her public health internship at Campus Health. She will be informing us today on implicit bias and about the stigma surrounding weight and body. Now let's welcome Dr. Laura Hunter.
[00:02:21.280] - Kayla
Thank you so much, Dr. Hunter, for joining us today. We're going to go ahead and get started on our questions. Would you be able to let our listeners know who you are and what you do?
[00:02:36.670] - Dr. Hunter
My research has been on implicit bias, specifically against women in STEM fields primarily. But I obviously am enmeshed in a lot of the research. I work at the University of Arizona and initiatives for organizational inclusion. So my work really is trying to create a more inclusive campus. I am also currently getting my master's of public health. I'm in my final semester, so I'm really excited about that as well, with an emphasis in health promotion.
[00:03:05.740] - Ashley
That's so exciting. What made you go back to school? And in public health after your other degrees? Because I know you have your PhD in sociology, right?
[00:03:21.660] - Dr. Hunter
Yes, in sociology. I like to consider myself a lifelong learner. And so I think public health in some ways is very similar to sociology, where we study things like any inequities.
[00:03:32.710] - Dr. Hunter
Public health really has an emphasis on health disparities by things such as race or social class, those sorts of things. So I think it aligns really well with sociology, but who knows? I might not use my degree. One of the great benefits about working at the University of Arizona is we have qualified tuition reduction, which means I have to pay very little for my schooling now.
[00:04:01.210] - Kayla
You mentioned that you're doing research on implicit bias. Would you be able to explain to us what implicit bias is?
[00:04:10.510] - Dr. Hunter
Implicit bias in a nutshell, are unconscious biases that we have because of cultural stereotypes that we grow up with that are in our society, what we see in the media? Implicit bias is also referred to as unconscious bias. And this is a key point is that these biases are unconscious. So these are very different than explicit biases. So things like calling somebody a racial slur or telling an immigrant to go back to their country, those are obviously very explicit forms of bias and discrimination.
[00:04:45.190] - Dr. Hunter
Implicit bias occurs on an unconscious level. They are shaped by the stereotypes that we have in our society. And these stereotypes essentially serve as lenses through which we interpret behavior, through which we evaluate others, through which we create expectations about others. Most of the research or not most, but a lot of the research has really focused on gender and race. And research shows that we categorize people in the United States by their race and gender within milliseconds of meeting them.
[00:05:20.320] - Dr. Hunter
And we do this without conscious awareness. And the only time we really think about it is when we're in those situations where we can't tell. And then you can kind of feel yourself trying to decide, is this person a woman, a man, not binary. You feel yourself trying to place it, but otherwise you just do it like a snap of the fingers. You just do it without conscious awareness. So if you hear people say, well, I don't see race, I don't see color, the research suggests otherwise that in the United States we do this unconsciously and within milliseconds.
[00:05:53.410] - Dr. Hunter
So our brains have to categorize things to reduce cognitive overload, to make sense of information. But we also have stereotypes that are linked to these categories that essentially become activated. And then they serve as kind of lenses through which we interpret behaviors I've already kind of mentioned.
[00:06:14.920] - Dr. Hunter
So we have stereotypes about race in our society. We have stereotypes about gender.
[00:06:19.030] - Dr. Hunter
We have stereotypes about social class or nationality or things like obesity, these sorts of things. So implicit bias is not with malicious intent and you can be very consciously committed to equity issues and still have biases, or you can even be a member of a disadvantaged or marginalized group and still have these biases. I use myself as an example here because my research is on gender bias in STEM fields. And I went to the Harvard website where you can take the implicit association test and I took it on gender in science and it showed that I have a negative bias against women in science.
[00:06:57.280] - Dr. Hunter
So despite the fact that I'm a woman, despite the fact that I'm very consciously committed to equity issues and despite the fact that I'm well aware of this research, I still grew up in a culture where most representations of scientists were men and typically white men. So my brain automatically makes that snap judgment for me. Malcolm Gladwell, in his bestselling book Blink, talked about how. As a black man, he took the implicit association test and it showed that he had an anti black bias and he kept taking it and it kept showing these results.
[00:07:31.060] - Dr. Hunter
So being a member of a disadvantaged group or being very consciously committed to equity issues does not mean that you're immune to these kind of stereotyped evaluations.
[00:07:43.210] - Dr. Hunter
Essentially, implicit bias means that we we have double standards for people. If somebody fits our stereotype, we tend to give them the benefit of the doubt, but we tend to evaluate them more favorably. If somebody does not fit our stereotype, we really don't expect them to do well. We really kind of really scrutinize their behavior. They have to essentially achieve more to be judged equally. And there's a lot of research that suggests that. And there is this really powerful example that I read in the news in the past couple of years.
[00:08:17.440] - Dr. Hunter
In this case, there was a passenger on an airplane who was in medical distress and the flight attendant got over the loudspeaker and said, is there a doctor on the plane? And a black woman stood up and said, yes, I'm a doctor, how can I help? And the flight attendant said something along the lines of, no, we're looking for a doctor. This woman said, I am a doctor. Then she was asked, well, do you have your medical papers or your documentation to prove that you're a doctor?
[00:08:44.080] - Dr. Hunter
Where did you go to school? What is your specialty? And so this woman, you can really understand her frustration. She wants to help somebody and somebody in medical distress. And because she doesn't fit their stereotype of a doctor, she had to go through all of these extra hurdles to prove herself rather than being kind of automatically granted this competence or expertise. So there's a lot of research out there that we have biases by race, by disability status, against the elderly, against overweight or obese people.
[00:09:22.600] - Dr. Hunter
We link gender with certain categories like leadership, ability and science, these sorts of things. So it's very common, but it is not intentional and it is very different than explicit discrimination, which we do see a lot of rhetoric and hate crimes nowadays.
[00:09:41.470] - Dr. Hunter
Implicit bias is really a more underlying form of bias that happens outside of our awareness and oftentimes against our best intentions or against our explicit attitudes.
[00:09:54.160] - Ashley
It sounds like a lot of it is because of our environment, like this is just the culture we grew up in. These stereotypes or these belief systems are deeply rooted and maybe just seen as like. Common vernacular, or common place, so it's it's like having to think outside the box or having to grapple with that and we can't grapple with it in a millisecond. So we're going to have that first kind of categorization or stereotype come up first. And then when you kind of zoom out and acknowledge it, it's like, oh, wait, yes, that actually is not true or helpful or real. And yeah, that that's such an interesting example, too, with the doctor.
[00:10:43.560] - Ashley
I think that that speaks to to privilege to is just like if you're kind of granted the privilege of not having to work those extra hurdles, not that the person didn't work hard to be a doctor, but have to explain themselves more frequently because they don't fit in that privileged space. I guess so. Does that makes sense?
[00:11:06.530] - Dr. Hunter
Yeah. And I think that stereotypes are just that, stereotypes. They are not accurate information at all and they are harmful for all of us. But some people who are not on the receiving end of stereotypes can not even realize the prevalence of them occurring to other people. So microaggression is kind of related to implicit bias. But, you know, questioning, Asian people often get the question, so where are you really from? Like, this underlying assumption that they are immigrants, that they're not born in the United States, or a person of color might get something like, oh, you speak so eloquently, which is really, what's the underlying assumption there?
[00:11:50.760] - Dr. Hunter
It's just really, really harmful.
[00:11:54.750] - Dr. Hunter
And I remember sitting in a talk recently and it was about biracial and multiracial experiences, and they were talking about the question of what are you and everyone in the workshop was just talking about. When I get that question, "what are you?" This is my answer, that they are asked that question so frequently that they have a stock answer.
[00:12:20.670] - Dr. Hunter
And I thought about it was a very eye opening moment for me and that I don't think I've ever in my entire life been asked, "what am I", as a white person? And if they did ask me what I am, I think my first reaction would be they're asking about my career.
[00:12:35.840] - Dr. Hunter
Oftentimes people who are in privileged positions don't understand kind of the other, you know, they're not experiencing what it's like not to be followed in a store because as privileged position really masks a lot of the experiences of other groups.
[00:12:55.980] - Kayla
Dr. Hunter, you hit on so many great points. Like you talking about, like the microaggressions, and being asked "what are you?"
[00:13:05.760] - Kayla
I've been asked that a thousand times over and I have my answer. It's always like, well, I'm human.
[00:13:15.510] - Kayla
Did you mean like you're trying to ask what my ethnicity is, if that's like the way you were trying to word it? And they'll be like, oh yeah. And or where you're from. And I'm from Tucson, like, I was born and raised in Tucson, and when people ask you, where are you from? I'm like, Oh, I'm from Tucson. And then it's like, but where are you really? And I'm like, Oh wow. Excuse me.
[00:13:41.930] - Kayla
I completely love the fact that we're talking about something like this, especially in such a prevalent time. And it's it's just amazes me, that people, they're they think it's OK to ask those questions. But like you said, you know, it's it's based off of how we see or have been exposed to certain things. And so my next question for you is, how can someone become more aware of their bias?
[00:14:12.210] - Dr. Hunter
So in some ways, it's very challenging because by its very nature, unconscious bias is unconscious and it's under the surface. So what the research shows, though, is that it's so universal that the best thing you can do is assume that you likely have biases. The worst thing you can do is assume you're objective, because that means you will unquestionably move forward. You won't question your assumptions. So it's really about kind of surfacing maybe some underlying assumptions, but also learning about it.
[00:14:46.530] - Dr. Hunter
I think the more and more that I've learned about implicit bias, the more it comes to the surface. When I'm having one of those biased thoughts it's something I can acknowledge and challenge and say, why am I thinking this? This is an incorrect assumption. You can also take the implicit association test that will give you your results at the end. That's the Harvard test. And I've taken a couple of them and one of them at the end, it showed me I had a slight bias. The other one, it showed me that I had a strong bias. So I have to be much more careful about that potential bias. I think acknowledging that we all have these biases is really important because you have to acknowledge it before you can actually take steps to address it. Though the worst thing you can do basically is to assume your objective is really interesting. Research has shown that people who think they're the most objective actually rely on stereotypes the most when making employment decisions.
[00:15:46.460] - Dr. Hunter
So the more you learn about it, the more you're kind of being very reflective. It's really important to kind of slow down your decision and your decision making processes. It's also, I think, important to learn about people who are different than you, you know, broadening your network. Deepening your friendships with others will make the unfamiliar more familiar, and you won't be relying on stereotypes when you are, say, judging people. A really interesting kind of trends over time has found that some biases have decreased specifically anti-black bias, and biases against LGBTQ individuals have decreased over time, at least in the past decade.
[00:16:39.460] - Dr. Hunter
And interestingly, we saw the biggest kind of decline in anti-black bias in two thousand fifteen right after the Black Lives Matter movement, which really laid bare the striking injustices faced by the black community for people who are not African-American themselves.
[00:17:00.100] - Dr. Hunter
So it really exposed others to kind of these injustices and really challenge some preconceived notions. So learning what you can information is really kind of the most powerful antidote to stereotypes.
[00:17:15.520] - Ashley
And I think it's that awareness and exposure, right? Because you only know, we know what we see. And so if we see more diversity in lots of different ways, at least gives us that additional exposure. I think sometimes when I'm frustrated with folks in my own family, it is related to just differences in exposure and times and lived experience. So I think I have to remember that, we try to surround ourselves with lots of diversity and awareness and keep learning and keep understanding that you don't know everything or that things are going to be new and uncomfortable and being OK with that and being open to that instead of feeling like that is a threat to your own character. I don't know. I always find people feel threatened by even the discussion of it sometimes. Do you think those tests, the Harvard test, which will link to the website, so folks can take that in the initial notes will link to those tests? There's a bunch of different ones. Right. And is it is it helpful?
[00:18:19.900] - Ashley
I know you can take them a bunch of times and how useful are they?
[00:18:23.980] - Dr. Hunter
I think they're useful. So I will start by saying what they do and what they do is measure associations between groups and stereotypes by measuring how quickly and accurately you're able to link groups with positive and negative traits. The idea is that the more quickly and more accurately you're able to link groups with specific, positive or negative traits, the more linked they are in your brain. So it's very different than a survey that asks your attitudes towards a specific group. So it's really trying to get to those things that are below the surface, just your brain linkages.
[00:18:58.900] - Dr. Hunter
And they're controversial because there's some research that shows they're a little bit unreliable. So you might take it one day and get a specific score and then you might take it two weeks later and have a different score. Some of that is due to factors that can increase or decrease your implicit biases. So powerful counter stereotypic images actually reduce your implicit biases. So in other words, research shows that if you visualize powerful women for five minutes and then take the implicit bias test, you'll have lower gender stereotypes about gender and leadership.
[00:19:40.030] - Dr. Hunter
So there is this kind of reliability issue that you might take us for, take the test one day and have a different score than you had last week. Proponents of it do say that as a whole, it's actually really important for showing the overall group for Americans that are general implicit attitudes. It's a good way to measure kind of these underlying assumptions, and it's more accurate for groups than it is for specific individual. There's also the criticism of whether implicit biases necessarily impact your behavior.
[00:20:16.510] - Dr. Hunter
So how you treat other people. There is evidence to suggest both that it does correlate with behavior and then there's some evidence to say that it doesn't correlate that highly with behavior. I will say that if it's all of our research just relied on the implicit association test, that would be a pretty weak measure as far as how do we know if this really exists.
[00:20:40.210] - Dr. Hunter
But there's a lot of other forms of research that suggest that implicit bias is very common, very pervasive and does impact, say, who we think would be a good fit for a job, how we evaluate them, who we call back for an interview, things like resume studies, where they actually send resumes to real job openings and see who gets a callback and resumes with names, white sounding. Names like Emily and Greg are far more likely to receive callbacks for an interview than it resumes with names like Lakisha and Jamal.
[00:21:17.780] - Dr. Hunter
So as a whole, I think the research is very strong. The implicit biases do, in fact, exist, and they do shape behaviors and they do shape outcomes.
[00:21:29.120] - Dr. Hunter
And how we treat other people.
[00:21:30.890] - Kayla
I think is a really great point that she made about like the names. Sometimes I have personally felt that I mean, my name, for example, is like the simplest name Kayla Williams. People before they even meet me, they think I'm going to be white. But when they see me, they're like completely taken aback because I'm Asian and African-American, hence as to why my last is Williams. So I think that I shouldn't have to feel like I'm thankful that my name is like that because it's like, wow. Like the fact that I'm, like, grateful that my name is like that. Because if my name was an African American sounding name, it's like, oh well, I don't know if I would be considered for something. So I think that's such a great point that you made. And you also mentioned earlier with I think it was the data that came out about how biases were decreased in African-Americans and LGBTQ. That's awesome. That makes me super happy to know it's like getting lower over time, because for me, growing up, a lot of the microaggressions and stereotypes were very clear.
[00:22:41.480] - Kayla
I grew up in a predominantly white town in Vail right outside of Tucson. And it was, oh, well, your black and Asian like, that's so cool. You must like watermelon or chicken or you must eat dog. I was like, oh my. And it was like a constant, constant thing going up. Yeah. And luckily I was like a very headstrong person. So I was like, you know, keep them coming because I'll just like get back at ya, kinda thing.
[00:23:16.640] - Kayla
But kids really were OK with it.
[00:23:21.980] - Kayla
They thought it was funny, they thought it was totally normal, like, oh, you're Asian, you must be so smart. That's why you're so good at math. And I was like, I mean things because I am smart, but that's not why I'm smart. Like, it was it was a constant battle. Like almost every day it felt like. So I'm just like grateful. I was as resilient as I was to be where I am now and just totally be OK with it.
[00:23:47.960] - Kayla
And I've always been the type of person to kind of not push but kind of teach everyone around me, like about my culture, because I like being Filipino and African American. Like, it's there are two very different cultures. So I made sure to introduce people to those things and to even other cultures. And as culturally competent as I am, I understand still that I'm sure I have implicit biases, most definitely, because just like you said, everyone does, and it's completely kind of normalized.
[00:24:21.680] - Ashley
Because you're human.
[00:24:26.810] - Dr. Hunter
To that you're able to respond very positively to encountering so many microaggressions, because it's something that no one should have to deal with. And I'm glad that it didn't tear you down or anything like that, because microaggression have been shown to impact mental health and retention among college students. So they are so incredibly powerful for communicating messages that you are different or you are you don't belong here. And there's really, I think, great metaphors about the cumulative impact of microaggressions where one, it's like a mosquito bite, right.
[00:25:08.480] - Dr. Hunter
One like itchy and annoying. But imagine being absolutely covered in mosquito bites and how uncomfortable that would feel. And people use that analogy or metaphor commonly to think about the cumulative impact of my profession, just how uncomfortable and horrible that feels.
[00:25:27.110] - Kayla
Right. And it was actually something like I even mentioned to Ashley a couple months ago that I hadn't really thought about those microaggressions that I had pointed towards me growing up until recently, because I kind of like the topic came up again. And, you know, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is such a great thing because it just, you know, everything from that hair ,like, please don't touch my hair. "My gosh, Kayla, can I touch your hair?" And I'd be like, I'm not a petting zoo. You cannot touch my hair. I'm someone like I can't wash my hair every day. I wash it, like, you know, every few weeks, once a month, because that's how my hair is. And it was just crazy that people really were like, oh, "my gosh, let me touch your hair". And I'm like, that's not OK. You cannot ask people to touch their hair.
[00:26:16.890] - Kayla
That is not OK. So, you know, over time, like just growing up, just being sure to stand my ground if someone called me a monkey or just crazy things that happened over time. And I'm very glad, I was able to kind of push them to the side. And part of me was like, was it because it was just like so traumatic for me? I just completely didn't think about it. But now that it's come up, because I did experience like so much racism and microaggressions.
[00:26:47.970] - Kayla
So it just makes me happy to know that we're talking about it now so that more people are like more aware of it. And we can try our best to teach younger generations so other kids like me don't grow up like that.
[00:27:01.890] - Ashley
I think that's a huge piece of it is like having though having the conversations and keep having the conversations and keep being loud about it and bringing it up, because it's still a problem.
[00:27:15.840] - Elizabeth
Yeah, I'm glad you're bringing that up, especially because I want to talk to people in general. They don't think these things are racist, especially if they didn't grow up in certain areas. I grew up in a predominantly white area and then moved to an area that was much more multicultural. And I didn't even, see a person of color until I was like 12. It's just like I wasn't personally aware of a lot of these problems until recently in my life.
[00:27:41.970] - Elizabeth
And I think it's just good in general to keep bringing it up because this is not a recent memory. Legally, people haven't had rights, as soon as 60 years ago, just these things in general, I think need to be brought up. And then one thing not to go completely off track, but I've heard recently in the news of a lot of implicit biases in health care in general. So do you think you could elaborate on that, like with race or with weight stigma and just categories like that that you brought up before?
[00:28:15.750] - Dr. Hunter
Sure. So there is really, really prevalent bias against overweight and obese people. And as I mentioned earlier, implicit bias against certain groups has decreased. It's actually increased against anti bias against overweight and obese people in the last decade or so. Not all forms of bias are decreasing. So what the research shows is this bias is implicit. Bias against overweight and obese people is increasing. Explicit bias has decreased a little bit, but only by about 15 percent.
[00:28:53.430] - Dr. Hunter
So explicit bias in this context would be like overt fat shaming type thing. As many as 80 percent of people have bias against overweight and obese people in America. And this is very troubling and it's very troubling because research also shows that 70 percent of adults or nearly 70 percent of adults are overweight or obese.
[00:29:17.580] - Dr. Hunter
So it's incredibly prevalent to be overweight in our society.
[00:29:22.680] - Dr. Hunter
And this this discrimination and bias is actually increasing. And it's it's very prevalent among health care workers. So people who are actually treating overweight and obese people have these negative biases. And it goes beyond just things about their body shape. It's about things like they think they're lazy, they think they're unmotivated, these sorts of things, they think they make less good workers. So it's really striking that other forms of biases are decreasing, but not bias against body weight.
[00:29:59.010] - Dr. Hunter
And we see that happening in health care a lot. And we also know that shaming people is a really effective way to get people to lose weight. So if people are having these really shameful discussions as health care workers, it's going to not be a productive way to try to promote health and looking at kind of racial disparities. And there's a ton of research that shows that we treat people differently or doctors or health professionals treat people differently, people of color, even things like what they prescribe.
[00:30:34.170] - Dr. Hunter
They're much less likely to prescribe painkillers to people of color than they are to white patients. And this is happening unconsciously from the doctor's perspective. But it's it's creating different outcomes, even how they try to gather patients histories. They're more likely to talk over patients of color than they are to white patients. So even able to get kind of a diagnosis is different based on kind of how doctors subtly treat different patients. So I kind of rambled on there for.
[00:31:07.770] - Ashley
No, I think that's a really good point, and I I see it happen. I mean, I'm a dietitian and I've worked in hospitals and I have seen it very prevalent. And it's I think it's frustrating because we assume based on the size of someone's body, that we know what type of health behaviors they engage in. And honestly, very inaccurate, because there's also good research that the "overweight" category of folks and slightly larger bodies tend to have sometimes more tend to be healthier sometimes than those in the normal or underweight category for sure.
[00:31:46.410] - Ashley
There's that paradox a little bit. And instead of kind of approaching people in larger bodies with questions than like trying to kind of give more inclusive care, they have everyone has that implicit bias around folks and larger bodies. And yeah, I, I read somewhere that it starts to so young and it just again we are like swimming in the soup of just a culture that puts these stereotypes on folks and it starts from such an early age. I want to say I was reading an article where they were doing a study on it was like six to 12 year old children that were already showing kind of a negative response to folks and larger bodies.
[00:32:27.510] - Ashley
I probably misquoted that study, but it's just it's fascinating to me that that is the way we approach folks in larger bodies. And instead of thinking of the big picture of, like, do you also have all these intersectionalities, like are you also in a lower socioeconomic status? Are you also in a in a body of color or are you also like gender nonconforming? Like there's just so many things that go into it, but you just kind of see a larger body, you must be X, Y, Z. And I think it's really I think it's really unacceptable.There I rambled.
[00:33:05.370] - Kayla
That is interesting about it starting to come out during youth. You just reminded me of something that actually happened when I was younger. I think in maybe sixth grade. There was a kid in the class and he was in a very large body for his age. And I remember kids would talk about him and, we would have assigned seats in the class and kids would be like, "I don't want to sit next to him because he's big or he smells."
[00:33:39.330] - Kayla
And it was just, so crazy, that kids were saying this about him and the teacher. She's still one of my favorite teachers. She ended up having she sat me next to him in, like, the assigned seating because, know she saw me as a student that was just carefree, I'm friends with everyone.
[00:34:05.570] - Kayla
Sitting next to him, I got to know him and I can't believe the kids were actually saying these things about someone in their class just because of his weight. It just breaks my heart because I was always someone that was like, oh, I dare you guys to talk about in front of me kind of thing.
[00:34:36.870] - Ashley
It's hard because folks want to be healthy. But I think our our view of health needs to be a little bigger and not be so narrow sometimes, and that it's hard to be accepting or tolerant of your body if you live in a larger body, because people aren't nice to you all the time. There are stigmas and implicit and explicit examples. But it is good to hear that the least explicit piece of weight stigma is decreasing so that that is good.
[00:35:09.000] - Dr. Hunter
It is still very high.
[00:35:10.090] - Dr. Hunter
I will say, and you're right, that it actually has been shown implicit bias has been shown to be increasing amongst children to like the trends over time, they are getting more and more biased against overweight people or body size. So it does start young and it's actually these implicit biases are increasing. And it reminds me of this interesting piece that was a book I wrote a few years ago called The Beauty Bias and essentially the categories that are not protected as far as employment discrimination.
[00:35:45.810] - Dr. Hunter
And you can be fired legally for how you look, including your body weight at the federal level. I'm not sure if there are different state laws, not that you know of either in this, because somebody was being interviewed.
[00:36:06.480] - Dr. Hunter
She was a fitness professional. But she was had a larger body size. She was great at her job, but she was fired because she didn't fit the stereotype of what a fitness professional looks like for some people. And that is perfectly legal to do or it was when this book was published.
[00:36:26.090] - Dr. Hunter
So we have stereotypes and I I'm just Internet forums and just hearing people. There are differences between how they're treated before when they are overweight. They would say that they'd be invisible and then when they lost weight, it's just striking difference how they're treated and just treated so much more kindly by people they know and people they don't know. And it's just I think it's one of the forms of bias. People still feel OK saying somebody is fat in a disparaging way.
[00:37:04.130] - Dr. Hunter
How often would you do that versus saying something like really disparaging about a gay person or lesbian person? Like those things are not socially acceptable in most circles where I think, you know, anti-fat that bias is much more socially acceptable, unfortunately.
[00:37:26.330] - Ashley
Yeah, I think I read like fat bias is the only acceptable form of oppression anymore. Or something along those lines.
[00:37:47.480] - Ashley
Well, before we close out with our last rapid fire questions, I think we have one more question. Maybe resources, right? How can students learn more? If this is their first introduction and they hear this and they're just itching to learn more, where do they go?
[00:38:07.490] - Dr. Hunter
So I think it depends. You know, if they want to watch YouTube videos, there are some good YouTube videos. I don't know if I can just send a few YouTube video links or something like that. So some good books, Blindspot is a good book. There's also one called Bias Uncovering the hidden prejudice that shapes what we see and can do. So there's good books. But if you just want another kind of video, there's some TED talks, some YouTube videos that are just I think the more you learn about it and in different format, whether you like to read, whether you like to watch videos, I think there are different options.
[00:38:45.650] - Dr. Hunter
And I'd be happy to share some resources or awesome.
[00:38:48.650] - Ashley
Yeah. And we'll put them in a show because I know I like that when I'm learning something new, it's like an option to read or listen or watch a video. It's like a nice variety to kind of take in that information. If people are just itching to learn more.
[00:39:02.520] - Kayla
OK, so at the end of every podcast, we like to ask the same four questions to our people we invite. So our first question for you is, if you could only have three foods ever again, what would they be?
[00:39:17.900] - Dr. Hunter
So I'm going to say and they're not my favorite foods, because my favorite foods are Thai dishes and Indian dishes, but I was going to go with what I eat the most, is avocado toast, I eat that nearly every single day.
[00:39:31.590] - Dr. Hunter
I can usually tell you where you can get your avocados on sale that week, and I eat a salad almost every single day. And then this is my embarrassing one. It's Costco brand protein bars, are like brand quest bars,I also eat one of those almost every single day. So that's my embarrassing one.
[00:39:55.280] - Ashley
I like it. You went like it went like essentials of what my body knows every to have and like I'm going to stick in this zone. I like it.
[00:40:06.920] - Kayla
Question two. So breakfast or dinner?
[00:40:08.720] - Dr. Hunter
Dinner. All the way. I actually very rarely eat breakfast.
[00:40:12.490] - Kayla
Oh OK. Interesting. Question. Three is crunchy tacos or soft tacos?
[00:40:18.080] - Dr. Hunter
That's also an easy one for me. That's soft corn tortillas all the way.
[00:40:23.930] - Ashley
I feel like soft tacos as a very much a fan favorite, I feel like people don't like how messy crunchy tacos.
[00:40:33.900] - Kayla
Yes, you crunch and it just flies everywhere. Who likes that? It slices up your mouth. Last question. If you could have dinner with any three people dead or alive, who would they be?
[00:40:47.090] - Dr. Hunter
Oh, this is a hard question. I don't know if everyone thinks so. I've been thinking about this since I got the questions.
[00:40:54.830] - Dr. Hunter
One of them would be either Michelle or Barack Obama or whoever is available that night. Ruth Bader Ginsburg, I think would be awesome too, so she's a shoe in, and then my final one is John Mulaney, who is my favorite comedian.
[00:41:20.950] - Kayla
That's a great dinner party, right? That's so much fun. Wow.
[00:41:26.140] - Ashley
Good conversation. But also, some carefreeness, just good.
[00:41:33.120] - Kayla
Thank you much for agreeing to be a guest on our show. We're super excited that you are here with us.
[00:41:38.530] - Dr. Hunter
Well, thank you. It was really fun experience. And thank you so much for inviting me. I appreciate it.
[00:41:44.050] - Ashley
Yeah. We appreciate you, Dr. Hunter. Thank you
[00:41:54.030] - Ashley
All right, that's our show. Thank you so much for listening and thank you, Dr. Hunter, for coming on our show. Please share with your friends and connect with us on all our campus health social channels. You can also e-mail us at CHS-Nutrition Navigators(at) email (dot) arizona (dot) edu, to you to submit your questions and comments about the show. We are excited to be bringing you monthly content to spark curiosity and further empower you to feel your best. We are sponsored by Campus Health and are a program in Health Promotion and Preventive Services.
[00:42:24.330] - Ashley
We'd also like to thank our sound engineer, Brian Paradis, for coordinating our show today. And we're so excited you're here. Be well Wildcats!